Cherie Ve Ard ([info]serolynne) wrote,
@ 2008-01-10 13:18:00
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Entry tags:hpv, hysterectomy

My Cervical Biopsy Results
Preface: Back in May, on our way out the door to start our nomadic journey - I had an abnormal PAP test with a positive HPV. For those newer to my journal, this is my second time around with this. I had an abnormal back in 2003, which I ended up having a LEEP procedure in 2004. I was having normal PAPs and negative HPV results until this past May. I've not been overly out about this new diagnosis like I was with my last one, as I really just didn't want to be a spokesperson against HPV again.


I had my follow-up appointment today with my gyn to discuss the cervical biopsy results that I had taken 2 weeks ago. The prognosis is not so good. My dysplasia has already progressed from mild to moderate. Which is the same thing that happened last time. My body just isn't up to snuff for handling aggressive strains of HPV.

Last time I tried every alternative therapy I could for a year - Chinese herbal medicine, homeopathic suppositories, intense vitamin supplementation to boost immune support, extra exercise, dietary improvements, etc. While that was the right choice for me then and it helped me at least feel I had some control over this virus.. this time around, I opted to not go through the agony of false hope again. I made no alterations to my lifestyle.

Same end results.



---

So, what does moderate mean? Basically, there are three pre-cancereous stages of HPV-caused dysplasia.

Mild is, well.. the mildest form, and is really pre-pre-cancerous. It's when the virus is using the body's genetic reproduction programming to spread itself. Most people (like, 91%) infected with HPV will only get to this stage, the immune system will fight it over a number of months and reverse the condition within two years.

Moderate is when the virus starts to switch from focusing on reproduction, and starts 'nesting'. It starts going a little deeper into the tissue and starts changing the shape of the skin cells. Chances of reversal go down quite a bit once it gets to this stage, especially for women over 30.

Severe is well nested and going further into the tissue.

Cancer is when the infection gets past the base tissue level and starts invading the body.

---


So, I'm one step closer to cancer - which is likely a several year progression (or none at all), but it could also be a rapid trip. But regardless, treatment of some sort shifts from 'you might want to consider' to 'you really should.' Sure, I could do more wait-n-see and hope that it reverses on its own, or try other alternative treatments - but I'm not stupid.


So, my treatment options through my current gyn are:

1) Have another LEEP procedure. This is an electrically charged wire that slices off the area of tissue in question. As a bonus, the heat can burn away the HPV virus too. The tissue is then sent to pathology to make sure there was none that was already cancerous, and that there is a clean margin around the edges (indicating they got it all). This is normally a pretty minor procedure that can be done in office. However, my doctor says 'I'm not in the habit of torturing patients and have found that the LEEP is too uncomfortable for most, so I don't even have the equipment here. I do it only as an outpatient surgery under general anesthesia.' I went under last time, but only because I negotiated having a tubal ligation while under too (yes, you can negotiate your health care). So, if I want a LEEP, I either have to go under (and pay out a $300 co-pay) with my current gyn, or find one in the area who has equipment in office and who is in the habit of torturing patients (I've already contacted my primary doc to see if he knows any).

2) A total abdominal hysterectomy We talked seriously with my gyn about this option, at my request. He thinks it's a reasonable course of action. Initially he said I'd have to have a LEEP first to make sure there's no cancer (because that would mean needing an oncology doc to do the procedure instead). No way I'm going under twice to deal with this, especially since the odds of me having cancer right now are very very slim. So, I negotiated with him to consider putting me under, doing a frozen section STAT biopsy (they check it for cancer while I'm under), and if it's clear - proceeding with the hysterectomy, removing my uterus and cervix. If it's cancerous, wake me up and refer me to an oncology gyn. He says after almost 5 years of dealing with this, there's plenty of indication that a hysterectomy is a justifiable solution, and should be a breeze to have approved by my insurance. In fact, he said even if a LEEP came back showing no signs of dysplasia (ie. the biopsy removed the only area of concern, or I spontaneously regressed), he'd still support doing a hysterectomy just to be done with it.

----

Pros of the LEEP

- Should be a quick and easy procedure.

- Little chance of complications

- Quick recovery

- Potential to zap HPV virus particles

- We can get the HPV vaccine to help protect against future infections - my doctor even said he feels men should be getting the vaccine, and he will administer to anyone who wants it.


Cons of a LEEP

- While it worked well last time, it leaves me with a cervix that will have had two such surgeries - which increases my risks of a weakened cervix. Not such a big deal as I won't be having children to worry about needing to carry to term.. but I do wonder about how healthy my cervix will be to defend against future calamities.

- My cervix is obviously susceptible to this virus. And until I get into my 40s and 50s (when the cervical cells harden to become quite the defender of HPV), I'll remain so. Than means HPV will be a major concern for me. Both Chris and I are likely to be carriers of the virus for some time, and re-infection between us (even with condom use) is still possible. Also, in considering any new sexual partners either Chris or I take on. Basically.. the criteria for a new partner will be : is this person worth surgery for? Considering I'm intentionally polyamorous (despite my current hiatus) and in my mid-30s - this is a major quality of life issue to consider.

- Potential insurance problems. Most individual insurance plans will not take someone in current treatment for an abnormal PAP. Not being in treatment is defined as 'having 2 years of normal PAPs and your doctor having released you to go back to PAPs every year.' I'll probably likely never get there again, as having two episodes of abnormal PAPs keeps me as a high risk patient, needing PAPs every 6 months. As a self employed nomad, having my health care options cut for this silly virus is asinine. This is more an issue of our current medical system, than anything else.


Pros of a hysterectomy

- My cervix would be removed, reducing my opportunity for frustration from HPV in the future down to very little.

- My hunch is that I can't be considered in treatment for an abnormal PAP for the rest of my life if I don't have a cervix. I need to confirm this with someone knowledgeable about the insurance industry.

- Significantly reduced risk of future gyn problems. No future uterine fibroids, endrometreosis, polyps, uterine cancer, etc.

- No more periods, although since I discovered the Diva Cup (reusable menstrual cup), my periods really have become a non-issue.

- Learning how to spell hysterectomy without needing a spell checker to correct me.

Cons of a hysterectomy

- It's a major surgery done as an inpatient procedure with 3 days in the hospital afterwards.

- Significant increased risk of complications.

- 4-6 weeks of real recovery time (significant reduction of mobility, lifting, etc.)

- Besides the HPV thing, I've been greatly blessed with well functioning and problem free and pain free reproductive organs. It seems a shame to cut them out for a silly little virus.

- Possible future need to go on Hormone Replacement Therapy (HRT), although I'd likely leave my ovaries in. My mother had estrogen positive breast cancer after going on HRT, so this is a concern for sure.




So, there are my current considerations on my immediate options. I would appreciate any feedback on your thoughts, other points of consideration, references to resources you trust or personal stories folks might have around these options. Or heck, a simple message of support is appreciated too.


I have an appointment for a week from now, where I will tell my doctor my answer. So, I'll be giving this a lot of thought until then.




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[info]indywind
2008-01-10 08:23 pm UTC (link)
1. ::support::
2. while looking at the pros and cons, you might find it helpful to flag the ones that you can/can't afford in terms of time, money, emotion/quality-of-life, according to your own priorities. I reckon that would be more useful than hearing my feedback based on my values (for instance, I've rarely had insurance, never for long at a stretch, so my gut feeling about affordability of major medical procedures is likely to be at an angle from yours).
3. My friend [info]slamson recently had a hysterectomy, and reported the recovery was not nearly as bad as advertised, after the first week.
4. I don't need to remind you that the HPV vaccine only targets the commonest types. It'd be really annoying to have the LEEP & vaccine and still pick up a different, less common type a few years from now. tho I suppose you could always have the hysterectomy later if you must.
5.Can I have the name of your doc who is pro-vaccine? A male sweetie of mine reports he's been unable to convince his PCP to vaccinate him, and I'd like to put him in touch with more options.
6. Warm wishes for best possible outcome, whatever you choose. I'll get my 1-year followup pap results about this weekend, so healthy cervix vibes to both of us.

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[info]serolynne
2008-01-10 09:33 pm UTC (link)
Best wishes for your PAP result. Please send me your e-mail address and I'll be happy to pass you my gyn's name. As he's a gyn tho, I don't know if he' sees male patients.. but he did seem receptive to giving it to Chris as the partner of his patient.

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vacination
[info]lessingham93
2008-01-11 07:21 am UTC (link)
The problem is that they havn't completed clinical testing on men yet. Or hadn't last I checked. I looked into it after getting involved briefly with someone that had an HPV outbreak 6 years earlier.

A lot of doctors won't prescribe anything not approved for use for a specific purpose. Those giving it to men are doing it in spite of this.

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Re: vacination
[info]indywind
2008-01-11 02:08 pm UTC (link)
Actually, AFAIK, they haven't done clinical testing on men at all, nor are going to in the near future. It's somewhat difficult to measure effectiveness in a population for whom they don't have a proper diagnostic instrument. They need to develop a test for HPV in men first, and so far they don't seem inclined to, presumably because guys are scarcely ever directly affected--just carriers.

So vaccinating men is even more off-label than vaccinating women outside the approved 9-26 age-group who have already been sexually active (like Cherie, or my guyfriend's wife, whose conservative gyno doesn't think it's worth giving her, let alone him). But off-label prescription is hardly rare; true, a lot of doctors won't, but as many more will for at least some treatments. Birth-control pills for preventing acne come immediately to mind, and antihistamines for sleeping aids.

YMM, of course, V.

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Re: vacination
[info]lessingham93
2008-01-14 09:18 pm UTC (link)
The company that makes gardasil has been claiming to be doing testing in men for some time. http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/63749.php
" Merck is currently doing trials of Gardasil on men, including men who have sex with men, but it has not reached any conclusions yet"

Although I also know I have been told by people in the health field that there is no good test for HPV in men. Though that run's counter to what I read here.
"The doctors who are vaccinating gay men are swabbing them first to find out if they already have HPVs and if so which ones" so I frankly don't know who to believe.

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[info]femetal
2008-01-10 11:26 pm UTC (link)
HUGS!!!

Given the recent events in my family, I'm finding myself to be rather pro-hysterectomy, particularly if you can keep your ovaries and still retain the broadest benefits from the surgery. (In other words, if you don't need HRT, and if you don't have a high risk for ovarian cancer, a total hysterectomy sounds ideal.) (BTW, according to the Mayo Clinic, a "radical" hysterectomy includes removing the uterus, the ovaries, the upper part of the vagina, and sometimes the lymph nodes.)

Certainly, recovery time is a factor, as well as long-term effects on your sexuality (since part of the reason that this is such a difficult decision is because your sexuality is an important expression that you're not willing to abandon at this stage in your life.) I don't know much about the side effects of a hysterectomy on sex drive or on sexual function, but it would be a definite consideration if it were me.

Also, from an insurance perspective, I would guess that it will be easier and cheaper to find insurance after a hysterectomy, rather than after another LEEP while you're still within your "child bearing years". Insurance companies don't look at *you*, a responsible, child-free-and-staying-that-way, health-conscious woman, they just see your circumstances and their composite averages.

I don't have much in the way of hard facts or personal experience, though. Just thoughts and conjecture.

It's a big decision, and I hope you find yourself reaching an answer without having to compromise, one which you can determine is simply the best choice for you.

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[info]serolynne
2008-01-11 02:32 am UTC (link)
Thank you for the reflection back, and the correction.. I think what my doc is actually talking about is a Total Hysterectomy.. just removing the uterus and cervix. Since I have no family history of ovarian cancer and my ovaries looked really healthy when he did my tubal, he thinks it's a good idea to leave the ovaries. That would be a definite plus on that side for many reasons.

So far, everything I've researched so far seems to point to leaving the ovaries has a better prognosis for positive outcome on the sex response thing. Of course, the first few months will be precarious.. but long term, it seems to have little to positive impact.

Definite considerations tho.

(Reply to this) (Parent)

*hugs*
[info]klrmn
2008-01-11 01:38 am UTC (link)
i have not specifically *asked* a doctor if this is the case, but i would imagine

con of leep - increased risk of PID, due to weaker cervix

pro of hysterectomy - lower risk of PID, harder for infection to invade before you can catch it.

pro of hysterectomy - anatomically impossible to get unintentionally pregnant.

more *hugs*, i'm afraid i don't have any sage wisdom to help you make your decision.

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Re: *hugs*
[info]serolynne
2008-01-11 02:37 am UTC (link)
Ahh.. yes, I do have to keep in mind that despite having a tubal, there is a slim chance of pregnancy, and a hysterectomy would really make that an even more permanent part of my decision. Hmm.. funny, since the tubal I really don't give fertility issues much consideration. :)

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Re: *hugs*
[info]klrmn
2008-01-11 06:17 am UTC (link)
i must have been having selective memory loss to not have remembered you had mentioned the tubal in an earlier paragraph.

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[info]destabee
2008-01-11 02:29 am UTC (link)
As much as I didn't want to have a hysterectomy, it turned out to be a good choice for me though the reasons were very different. I was lucky in that I didn't have problems with the usual effects of sudden surgical menopause (hot flashes and such). However, the loss of estrogen did drastically increase problems with joint pain. I started taking estrogen a few months ago for that reason. The other post surgery changes that I have noticed are skin and hair changes. Those things might not be issues if they can leave your ovaries although the trauma of surgery can cause early menopause.

I would also add one additional consideration. Recovery (and I think I actually had a pretty fast recovery) lasts much longer than 4-6 weeks in terms of regaining stamina, endurance, and such.

I guess the bottom line is that I am not sure what choice I would make if I were in your place but I am here and willing to share any useful information I might have based on my experience.

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[info]serolynne
2008-01-11 02:34 am UTC (link)
Thank you so much. Over the coming week, I'll probably pop into chat and ask you a bunch of questions about your experience. :)

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[info]triskele
2008-01-11 03:47 am UTC (link)
I don't know you other than LJ, so I don't know what to say - other than your words aren't just floating into the ether, and I wish you every bit of luck with it all.

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[info]serolynne
2008-01-11 03:51 am UTC (link)
Thank you, I do appreciate that :)

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[info]greenfizzpops
2008-01-11 04:58 am UTC (link)
I don't have anything useful to add but I do hope that whatever option you go with works out well for you.

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[info]aztecknight
2008-01-11 06:43 am UTC (link)
I have no knowledge, but it seems from your words that the hysterectomy has more long term benefits if the risk is as low as it seems.

* hug *

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Huh...
[info]lessingham93
2008-01-11 07:14 am UTC (link)
They can't do a LEEP with a local anasthesia?

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Re: Huh...
[info]lessingham93
2008-01-11 07:16 am UTC (link)
Hmmm.... this is a pretty good page on LEEP
http://www.webmd.com/cancer/cervical-cancer/loop-electrosurgical-excision-procedure-leep-for-abnormal-cervical-cell-changes

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Re: Huh...
[info]serolynne
2008-01-11 12:47 pm UTC (link)
I'm well versed in the LEEP.. I had one almost 4 years ago.

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Re: Huh...
[info]serolynne
2008-01-11 12:45 pm UTC (link)
Well.. technically, they can. But it appears that where I'm at, none of the doctors do.

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Re: Huh...
[info]lessingham93
2008-01-14 09:14 pm UTC (link)
It astonishes me that they would even consider doing LEEP without putting someone under and not use a local anasthesia. I don't disagree with your doctors view of it as torture... just find it odd that he wouldn't, if holding that view, think of using the local. (shrug)

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[info]enchantedwahine
2008-01-11 07:15 am UTC (link)
As a former GYN nurse for many years, I cant see any reason why they would need to take your ovaries. Having a hysterectomy was the best thing I ever did for my health though I did have issues that you do not. It is just so nice not having to deal with a period. I also think that a vaginal hysterectomy would be possible (since you are not dealing with tumors and assuming there is no cancer) which is a much faster and easier recovery. What ever you decide I wish you luck and a speedy recovery.

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[info]serolynne
2008-01-11 12:46 pm UTC (link)
Thanks. My doc said that a vaginal hysterectomy wasn't possible because I've not had kids, thus my vagina is not large enough to fit my normal sized uterus through. I think it if were an option, that would definitely push the hysterectomy up a notch in the race.

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[info]enchantedwahine
2008-01-11 10:15 pm UTC (link)
I'm surprised the doctor said that. Have you gotten a second opinion?
Hugs.

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[info]serolynne
2008-01-11 10:29 pm UTC (link)
No.. but I may be calling around to some other gyn's to get other opinions on the LEEP being able to be done in office.

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[info]silvergoldberry
2008-01-11 02:12 pm UTC (link)
Hugs and support.

Not sure what else to say though. I don't have any personal experience with these things but I'm sure you'll make the best choice.

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[info]its_paul
2008-01-12 04:21 pm UTC (link)
Learning how to spell hysterectomy without needing a spell checker to correct me.

Even throughout this whole ordeal you still manage to keep a sense of humor.

*HUGS*

I guess if it were myself going through this I would base my answer on just one main question.

How is this going to effect me in the future?

IE: How many more times are you going to have to keep fighting the same prognosis?
If you do the LEEP once again what are the odds of it coming back based on the odds of haveing the hysterectomy.
So in the long run which answer would improve general health and wellness as well as mental health?

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[info]aerieofgrace
2008-01-13 03:47 am UTC (link)
I had a normal pap last fall, but my gyn saw hpv and I am having a colposcopy this tuesday. I am nervous about possible pain and am hoping this doesn't become more serious.

anyway, you'll be in my thoughts.

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[info]serolynne
2008-01-13 04:03 am UTC (link)
Best wishes on your colposcopy. I've had three of them so far, each with biopsies... and I haven't experienced much discomfort with them at all. Hint.. take some advil about 30 minutes before your appointment.

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Gotta get you a hard hat, sister
[info]cacopema.wordpress.com
2008-01-13 10:20 pm UTC (link)
Hey sweetie, it's really comin' down for you guys lately, huh? Anyway, know Jill and I hold you in the light and send love.

After reading all of your blog, I think, if I were in your shoes, I'd lean to the hysterectomy. I think it's important, also, for you to remember that you would be going into surgery with outstanding health, and that will make your recovery time "easier", whatever that means! Blessings! Diane

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[info]alan7388
2008-01-16 03:13 am UTC (link)
No advice, just a big hug and hand-hold from here. You have my best wishes.

Alan M.

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